IHDP Open Meeting 2009 Interview with Ortwin Renn

Professor, University of Stuttgart
Director, DIALOGIK, Germany

By Tande Chilenge / IHDP Secretariat

“We have to integrate learning phases in situations when people are willing to learn such as in business workshops and not when people want to relax (…). When human beings are not willing to agree to a learning context then even the best communication is worthless and will be ignored.”

Bonn, 28 April 2009

TC / IHDP: During your presentation at the plenary session on Resources and Technological Innovation, you mentioned that more stakeholders should be integrated in the search for global sustainability. Who exactly do you consider as stakeholders and how would you communicate this concern to them?

OR: We try to bring together four major groups in the governance model: first, governance and public authorities; second, industry and commercial interests; third, science and experts, and last but not least civil society, which means NGOs and groups such as churches. These four groups have to come together. That is fundamentally our risk governance model and for each phase in this risk governance structure, from the so-called pre-assessment up to risk management, we have different instruments and different processes dealing with how to involve these stakeholders.

TC / IHDP: Every citizen can, for example, contribute by using energy saving bulbs or by using bicycles instead of cars. People, however, don’t take advantage of these options. How much do you think this behaviour comes from a preference for comfort or from financial aspects?

OR: We know from the social sciences that environmentally suitable behaviour is a so-called ”low cost behavioural variable“. That means that when other motivations are playing a role in terms of comfort or even social prestige, environmental aspects will take a back seat. We have to assure that governance is providing impulses that, in addition to the peace of having a good conscience, which actually does not carry that much weight, give gratification if one is behaving in environmentally suitable ways and punishment if not. Financial incentives are one way in which to do this but there are also incentive systems that combine social aspects like competition and their exist specific groups, in which you gain social prestige by behaving in environmentally suitable ways. This is one thing that governance can provide by supporting networks. This is cheaper and often better than wasting money directly. From that point of view, these incentive systems are very important, because without education related measures, we will probably not be able to handle environmental challenges.

TC / IHDP: How would you communicate the urgent need for solutions to the public, if we don’t focus on the financial opportunity to do so? For example, public television slowly informs more and more about the challenges, but private TV is more entertainment oriented and reports in catastrophic, sensationalised ways.

OR: Well, most of our communication media is entertainment media and when people come home after working eight hours, they don’t want to then go to an adult education centre in the evening. The media must have an answer for this. Many scientific TV programmes, mostly in private TV, do have an entertainment focus, so the value of learning is almost zero. That might be deflating, but it is also understandable that someone who worked the whole day wants to be entertained, not learn something. This means we have to integrate learning phases in situations when people are willing to learn, such as in business workshops and not when people want to relax. There also exist a whole series of networks in which activities are placed in learning contexts. When human beings are not willing to agree to a learning context then even the best communication is worthless and will be ignored. I think it is important to consider that. It is not illegitimate, for we all have the need to be entertained. People would rather watch a crime thriller than a scientific TV programme. We have to ensure that we create situations with learning contexts that are not only legitimate, but that the people also want. That is why many people are working in public involvement programmes in which they say, “Today we came together to discuss agenda 21” or “We are here to take better care of green spaces in our neighborhoods“ or “We are here today to form a car sharing group”. These are places where education has to take action. Not in front of the home TV.

Photo Copyright Mike Le Gray 2009.

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